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Thread: Debt limit reached? Borrow more!

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    Ranger PMC's Avatar
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    Debt limit reached? Borrow more!

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...edName=topNews

    (Reuters) - The United States reached the legal limits of its borrowing authority on Monday as a top Republican increased his party's demand for deep spending cuts as part of any increase.

    The remarks by Representative Paul Ryan, the top budget writer in the House of Representatives, underscored the divisions that Republicans and Democrats will have to overcome in order to raise the $14.3 trillion debt limit and avoid a default that would roil markets across the globe.

    The Treasury Department said it was dipping into federal pension funds to pay the country's bills, one of several emergency measures that should stave off a default until early August.

    Congress is not expected to raise the debt cap until sometime this summer as lawmakers search for a deal that would allow them to back an increase while showing voters that they are taking steps to get debt under control.

    Speaking to top financial executives at the Economic Club of Chicago, Ryan said any deal would have to include spending cuts that are larger than the amount of the debt-ceiling increase -- a tougher stance than conditions that have been laid out previously by other party leaders.

    "For every dollar the president wants to raise the debt ceiling, we can show him plenty of ways to cut far more than a dollar of spending," Ryan said.

    Outside the event, about 100 protesters waved signs reading "Hands off Medicare" -- a reference to the popular health program that would face cuts under Ryan's budget plan. With the 2012 campaign season already under way, Democrats see an opportunity to pick up votes by bashing that approach.

    DEMOCRATS LAUNCH NEW ATTACK

    The Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee, which aims to win back control of the House, unveiled a new campaign with the stark slogan: "Vote Republican, End Medicare."

    But House Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi said the program should not be immune from budget talks as health costs continue to outpace inflation.

    "I think Medicare's on the table," Pelosi said on CNBC. "We have to put it all on the table, see what works."

    A failure to raise the debt ceiling would eventually force the United States to default on obligations -- whether payments to Social Security retirees or interest on the debt. That could push the country back into recession and cause trouble for economies and markets across the globe.

    So far, markets were little bothered by the United States' public finances. The benchmark 10-year Treasury bond yielded 3.15 percent in midday trading, well below its historical average, as investors continued to view U.S. debt as a safe haven in an uncertain economic environment.

    A top bond manager said it would be foolish for investors to bet against a debt-limit increase.

    Rick Rieder, a top bond trader at BlackRock, said the market expects that Washington will ultimately strike a deal that will allow a debt-ceiling increase.

    Still, concern about the country's fiscal situation may be prompting foreign investors to shift their purchases toward shorter-dated assets, which carry less risk, according to Treasury data.

    Lawmakers are eager to show voters they can rein in a debt load that has more than doubled in the past 10 years due to wars, tax cuts and the deepest recession since the 1930s.

    While Republicans and Democrats have found some common ground in budget talks, they remain at loggerheads over the areas that could yield the largest savings. Representative Jim Clyburn, a top Democrat who has participated in the talks, said the two sides have yet to address taxes or Medicare.

    Republicans are insisting on spending cuts measuring in trillions, along with an agreement that would hold down spending over the longer term. Democrats say tax increases will have to be part of the solution as well.

    "If the Democratic caucus feels that the sacrifice being requested is fair, I think the votes will be there," Clyburn told Reuters.


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    Sniper benja455's Avatar
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    Re: Debt limit reached? Borrow more!

    Quote Originally Posted by PMC
    Lawmakers are eager to show voters they can rein in a debt load that has more than doubled in the past 10 years due to wars, tax cuts and the deepest recession since the 1930s.
    Yep. Here's a quick and easy plan to balance the budget and start paying down the federal debt. End all three wars (Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya), end the Bush tax cuts and start working on creating jobs (which would increase tax revenue on all levels).

    You're welcome.

    Quote Originally Posted by molon.labe View Post
    you are so high speed.
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    Re: Debt limit reached? Borrow more!

    Quote Originally Posted by benja455
    Quote Originally Posted by PMC
    Lawmakers are eager to show voters they can rein in a debt load that has more than doubled in the past 10 years due to wars, tax cuts and the deepest recession since the 1930s.
    Yep. Here's a quick and easy plan to balance the budget and start paying down the federal debt. End all three wars (Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya), end the Bush tax cuts and start working on creating jobs (which would increase tax revenue on all levels).

    You're welcome.

    What about the national endowment for the arts, welfare, WIC, payments to Native Americans (who are now among the richest because of tribal casinos) and loans/grants to foreign countries.....as for the number of Federal Employees....

    "In view of the recent shenanigans in Washington, does it not seem that
    things run better when the government is shut down? Of course, the
    administration only furloughed "non-essential" workers. Just what the
    government is doing hiring non-essential workers is not explained."

    Jeff Cooper
    From Jeff Cooper's Commentaries
    Vol. 4, No. 3
    February 1996

    Actor portrayal, Action figures sold separately, You must be at least this tall to ride, Individual results may vary, Sales tax not included, All models are over 18 years of age, upon approval of credit, Quantities are limited while supplies last, Some restrictions apply, Not available with other offers, At participating locations only, Void where prohibited, Above terms subject to change without notice, Patent pending.

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    Sniper benja455's Avatar
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    Re: Debt limit reached? Borrow more!

    Quote Originally Posted by TINCANBANDIT
    What about the national endowment for the arts, welfare, WIC, payments to Native Americans (who are now among the richest because of tribal casinos) and loans/grants to foreign countries.....as for the number of Federal Employees....
    National Endowment for the Arts: $146.255 million for FY 2012

    http://www.nea.gov/about/Budget/NEA-FY1 ... equest.pdf

    By "welfare" you mean "entitlements" which includes a variety of programs which include WIC, food assistance/stamps, matching funds for state programs, health insurance and many others: $431.5 billion for FY 2012

    Yet, the programs you're really concerned about only cost $80.1 billion.

    http://www.gpoaccess.gov/usbudget/fy11/ ... st10z1.xls

    "Payments to Native Americans" don't really exist. Some Native Americans receive small sums of money as part of their share for access to minerals on tribal land or from the recent court case settling the Federal Government's mismanagement of tribal lands. Most of those payments are small and one-time-deals. Regardless, I'll include the $1.4 billion dollar settlement from 2009 into my total number even though the other numbers are for 2012. With that said, would you care to produce any evidence about how Native Americans "are not among the richest because of tribal casinos"? Last time I checked, poverty rates among Native Americans were pretty high.

    http://articles.cnn.com/2009-12-08/us/i ... s?_s=PM:US

    Foreign Assistance (including food aid): $32.9 billion for FY 2012

    http://www.state.gov/s/d/rm/rls/fs/2011/156553.htm

    Grand total: $114.546 billion. Just to be nice, I'll round that up to $115 billion.

    So, let's check out those wars: $117 billion for FY 2012

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-01-2 ... -2005.html

    So, by ending those two wars...I've already saved more money than closing down all the programs you've targeted. And that's just Iraq and Afghanistan - not Libya - and those numbers don't include taking care of long-term injuries or other Veterans benefits that we owe to the troops who put their lives on the line over there. Such expenses are estimated to cost nearly a trillion dollars:

    http://www.armytimes.com/news/2010/10/m ... s-100810w/

    The Bush Tax cuts are estimated to cost $105 billion dollars in revenue just for 2012. Once again, if you simply eliminate the Bush tax cuts - you would come close to saving the same amount of money as all of those programs you have a problem with.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fac ... _blog.html

    And we all know almost all of those cuts (and the money) went to the wealthy:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/08/washington/08tax.html

    http://www.factcheck.org/here_we_go_aga ... s_tax.html

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 02671.html

    Ultimately, I don't think I really need to add up the total expense of those wars and the tax cuts have really cost us. Trillions of dollars, thousands of lives...OBL is gone - let's call it a day, bring the troops home and start investing at home, improving the crumbling roads and putting people back to work.

    ETA: The $105 billion for the Bush Tax cuts is just the number for 2012, not for the entire lifespan of those cuts...I believe that number is somewhere near a trillion dollars or higher.

    Quote Originally Posted by molon.labe View Post
    you are so high speed.
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    Re: Debt limit reached? Borrow more!

    no you mis-understand me...I want all of these things gone...including the wars.... getsomez

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    Re: Debt limit reached? Borrow more!

    Quote Originally Posted by TINCANBANDIT
    no you mis-understand me...I want all of these things gone...including the wars.... getsomez
    Fair enough. I'd prefer the wars were gone first and the troops are brought home. I don't know anyone that died at an event sponsored by the National Endowment for the Arts. yessir

    Quote Originally Posted by molon.labe View Post
    you are so high speed.
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    Re: Debt limit reached? Borrow more!

    I would say leave the tax rates where they are and cut all the above spending. We don't have a tax problem, we have a spending problem. Taxing more is too much of a disincentive. No point of being in any of the countries that don't supply us oil, then get somewhat energy independent and get the heck out of the M.E.

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    Re: Debt limit reached? Borrow more!

    I always hear people saying we should raise taxes for the rich, but the thing that I do not understand is why people who make more (or less for that matter) are subject to different tax rates. It seems to me that if I were rich (filthy rich) and the goverment came down and said hey you are going to have to give us more of your money, then I would just take my money and move to a different country were I would'nt have to pay taxes(or at least as high). As it was stated above raising taxes for the rich is giving the rich a reason not to keep that money in the U.S. Is this fair to the rest of us? No. But what would you do if it were your money?


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    Sharp Shooter Hunter757's Avatar
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    Re: Debt limit reached? Borrow more!

    Quote Originally Posted by primalpriest
    I always hear people saying we should raise taxes for the rich, but the thing that I do not understand is why people who make more (or less for that matter) are subject to different tax rates. It seems to me that if I were rich (filthy rich) and the goverment came down and said hey you are going to have to give us more of your money, then I would just take my money and move to a different country were I would'nt have to pay taxes(or at least as high). As it was stated above raising taxes for the rich is giving the rich a reason not to keep that money in the U.S. Is this fair to the rest of us? No. But what would you do if it were your money?

    Good point, but..... That is what is wrong with the country outsourcing everything, including there money... We need to fix the spending problem not raise taxes. Oh ya where did the money come from for that special helicopter that helped seal team 6 ?? I would like to see the receipt for that one and how ever many others there are. We as a country are over spending and the need to fix the hole or where going to bleed to death. We let companys import things and give big companys tax breaks that are making millions and you (the goverment) want me to pay more wavefingz . We have stood by far to long and watched our country give our hard earned money away!! Its time to fix it.

    tiphatt


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    Re: Debt limit reached? Borrow more!

    Quote Originally Posted by benja455
    Quote Originally Posted by TINCANBANDIT
    What about the national endowment for the arts, welfare, WIC, payments to Native Americans (who are now among the richest because of tribal casinos) and loans/grants to foreign countries.....as for the number of Federal Employees....
    National Endowment for the Arts: $146.255 million for FY 2012

    http://www.nea.gov/about/Budget/NEA-FY1 ... equest.pdf

    By "welfare" you mean "entitlements" which includes a variety of programs which include WIC, food assistance/stamps, matching funds for state programs, health insurance and many others: $431.5 billion for FY 2012

    Yet, the programs you're really concerned about only cost $80.1 billion.

    http://www.gpoaccess.gov/usbudget/fy11/ ... st10z1.xls

    "Payments to Native Americans" don't really exist. Some Native Americans receive small sums of money as part of their share for access to minerals on tribal land or from the recent court case settling the Federal Government's mismanagement of tribal lands. Most of those payments are small and one-time-deals. Regardless, I'll include the $1.4 billion dollar settlement from 2009 into my total number even though the other numbers are for 2012. With that said, would you care to produce any evidence about how Native Americans "are not among the richest because of tribal casinos"? Last time I checked, poverty rates among Native Americans were pretty high.

    http://articles.cnn.com/2009-12-08/us/i ... s?_s=PM:US

    Foreign Assistance (including food aid): $32.9 billion for FY 2012

    http://www.state.gov/s/d/rm/rls/fs/2011/156553.htm

    Grand total: $114.546 billion. Just to be nice, I'll round that up to $115 billion.

    So, let's check out those wars: $117 billion for FY 2012

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-01-2 ... -2005.html

    So, by ending those two wars...I've already saved more money than closing down all the programs you've targeted. And that's just Iraq and Afghanistan - not Libya - and those numbers don't include taking care of long-term injuries or other Veterans benefits that we owe to the troops who put their lives on the line over there. Such expenses are estimated to cost nearly a trillion dollars:

    http://www.armytimes.com/news/2010/10/m ... s-100810w/

    The Bush Tax cuts are estimated to cost $105 billion dollars in revenue just for 2012. Once again, if you simply eliminate the Bush tax cuts - you would come close to saving the same amount of money as all of those programs you have a problem with.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fac ... _blog.html

    And we all know almost all of those cuts (and the money) went to the wealthy:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/08/washington/08tax.html

    http://www.factcheck.org/here_we_go_aga ... s_tax.html

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 02671.html

    Ultimately, I don't think I really need to add up the total expense of those wars and the tax cuts have really cost us. Trillions of dollars, thousands of lives...OBL is gone - let's call it a day, bring the troops home and start investing at home, improving the crumbling roads and putting people back to work.

    ETA: The $105 billion for the Bush Tax cuts is just the number for 2012, not for the entire lifespan of those cuts...I believe that number is somewhere near a trillion dollars or higher.
    So... what, you want to have Iraq and Afghanistan end up like [South] Vietnam? Leave them like a severed head? Yes, Osama Bin Laden is dead. Yes, Saddam Hussein is dead. But are the wars against those two individuals alone? No; the wars are against terrorism, and as far as I know, terrorism still exists in those regions. From what I understand, Al-Qaeda can and will continue to function regardless of Osama being dead, and continue to reign as an opponent to the USA if no opposition.

    With all the time, money, and lives spent on those countries would you rather have a short term solution for a long term problem? I suppose you're fine with your kids or grandchildren being deployed over there yet again because we failed to finish the job the first time.

    Our soldiers are working with the Iraqi's (whether it's effective or not) and are striving to establish security so we CAN pull out. Were you just expecting everyone just hop on C-17s and fly on out of there?


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