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Thread: Debt limit reached? Borrow more!

  1. #21
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    Re: Debt limit reached? Borrow more!

    Quote Originally Posted by benja455
    -X,

    You are cracking me up.

    Quote Originally Posted by xman1
    If you even try to blame this problem on a Republican, you need to be hunted down like a dog and slapped! slizap
    ks ks ks ks

    You've got to be joking right? Sspartan Both political parties are the problem.

    Anyway...ummm, you keep drinking the GOP Kool-Aid and everything will be alright. In the meantime, it seems your saviors have refused to eliminate the tax cuts for the oil companies:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/18/us/po ... gress.html

    Ha, ha...oh dear...you're a funny guy, X...keep doing your thing. tinfoilhat

    I couldn't resist the hunting thing! :mrgreen:

    We can get into this weekend (assuming the sun doesn't come out).

    But - do not quote the New York Times. Everything they do is skewed liberal. I don't trust one word they say because it is skewed somehow. Kind of like Fox News can be skewed - the NYT is worse. The NYT is listed as one of the 3 most biased news sources in America.

    I am not republican either by any means, but I can't blame them for the current problems. I do lean conservative, but not at all times.

    Example of where things don't add up - we have added a full $1 Trillion in GDP in the last few years and are currently growing at some of our fastest rates in history, so there is no shortage of taxes the Gov is taking in. So if you use your theory of a recession as the reason, that math is not adding up. Nothing has gone down in terms of growth, it has only increased. This is purely a case of more spending without limits. It is something the demo's are known for, but never on this scale. Something big is up. I feel they are trying to bankrupt us on purpose.

    Anyway - got to start doing the work thing. I'll post all the numbers later. And.... I'll give some interesting articles to read. Probably do a new thread on it.

    -X


  2. #22
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    Re: Debt limit reached? Borrow more!

    Explain to me how Bush managed to run 2 much larger scale wars, and managed to keep his tax cuts, yet only ran $300 to $300 billion deficit yearly?

    Fast forward to Demo's getting control of congress and Obama coming into office - since Obama got into office, the debt has risen to $225 billion this last February alone (One friggen month- a record!), nearly $1.5 trillion in deficit spending, and the democrat controlled congress has nearly bankrupted us by bringing our national dent from $8 Trillion to over $14 friggen Trillion in two friggen years! An increase of of 60%!!!! Well, more than 2 years - it started to spike when democrats took control of Congress in 2007. The last two years have really been the bulk of it.

    Let me give you a new plan - Fire all Democrats!

    You're welcome.

    -X

    PS. Just thinking about this, and I am getting ticked - the numbers are not adding up! There are two budgets - the one we know about and the one we don't know about. How do you get to $14 Trillion in the short time the Democrats took control of Congress? They have to be spending more than $1.5 Trillion per year! THey have only had control since the end of 2006, so you can't start counting till 2007!
    Lets take a brief peek into the past:
    Bush submitted his 2006 budget to Congress in February, it didn't contain one penny for combat in Iraq or Afghanistan. Bush said it would be impossible to know how much would be needed, so instead of including anything in the regular budget, he planed to continue the tradition of coming to Congress for emergency supplemental appropriations when war funds got low. This approach has the side effect of making the federal budget deficit appear smaller than it actually was. Far smaller, considering that spending in Iraq has averaged more than $5 billion a month. Thats just Iraqs cost per month, not including Afghanistan.

    Lets fast forward:
    Obama made a speech explaining exactly what you are quoted about above. He said, "That is why this budget looks ahead ten years and accounts for spending that was left out under the old rules – and for the first time, that includes the full cost of fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan," he said. "For seven years, we have been a nation at war. No longer will we hide its price."

    Summary:
    Bush left out the budget of the 2 wars. It rolled over to Obama. Obama spent tax dollars 10 years out into the future (as for why thats another topic of debate) + accounted for the 2 wars that until then where off the books.

    Does this explain it more clearly?

    My personal feelings on this:

    I think the government failed us, mainly congress. They should have held the spending accountable when it happened as it happened. They sacrificed our liberty for security. Now we are in debt to China, still have remnants of the patriot bill, and stuck in 2 wars we cannot afford. Its not about republican vs democrats. Its about people not doing there job and not heeding the warnings of our founding fathers. As Thomas Jefferson said “He who trades liberty for security deserves neither and will lose both.”

    hockey, guns, beer, and boobies. Write in Ron Paul for president.

  3. #23
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    Re: Debt limit reached? Borrow more!

    Fed's,WE CAN'T BE BROKE,WE HAVE LOT'S OF PAPER TO PRINT MORE MONEY ON.

    If everthing is EXPLODING AROUND YOU ITS PROBABLY US

  4. #24
    Sniper benja455's Avatar
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    Re: Debt limit reached? Borrow more!

    Quote Originally Posted by twydyn
    Explain to me how Bush managed to run 2 much larger scale wars, and managed to keep his tax cuts, yet only ran $300 to $300 billion deficit yearly?

    Fast forward to Demo's getting control of congress and Obama coming into office - since Obama got into office, the debt has risen to $225 billion this last February alone (One friggen month- a record!), nearly $1.5 trillion in deficit spending, and the democrat controlled congress has nearly bankrupted us by bringing our national dent from $8 Trillion to over $14 friggen Trillion in two friggen years! An increase of of 60%!!!! Well, more than 2 years - it started to spike when democrats took control of Congress in 2007. The last two years have really been the bulk of it.

    Let me give you a new plan - Fire all Democrats!

    You're welcome.

    -X

    PS. Just thinking about this, and I am getting ticked - the numbers are not adding up! There are two budgets - the one we know about and the one we don't know about. How do you get to $14 Trillion in the short time the Democrats took control of Congress? They have to be spending more than $1.5 Trillion per year! THey have only had control since the end of 2006, so you can't start counting till 2007!
    Lets take a brief peek into the past:
    Bush submitted his 2006 budget to Congress in February, it didn't contain one penny for combat in Iraq or Afghanistan. Bush said it would be impossible to know how much would be needed, so instead of including anything in the regular budget, he planed to continue the tradition of coming to Congress for emergency supplemental appropriations when war funds got low. This approach has the side effect of making the federal budget deficit appear smaller than it actually was. Far smaller, considering that spending in Iraq has averaged more than $5 billion a month. Thats just Iraqs cost per month, not including Afghanistan.

    Lets fast forward:
    Obama made a speech explaining exactly what you are quoted about above. He said, "That is why this budget looks ahead ten years and accounts for spending that was left out under the old rules – and for the first time, that includes the full cost of fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan," he said. "For seven years, we have been a nation at war. No longer will we hide its price."

    Summary:
    Bush left out the budget of the 2 wars. It rolled over to Obama. Obama spent tax dollars 10 years out into the future (as for why thats another topic of debate) + accounted for the 2 wars that until then where off the books.

    Does this explain it more clearly?

    My personal feelings on this:

    I think the government failed us, mainly congress. They should have held the spending accountable when it happened as it happened. They sacrificed our liberty for security. Now we are in debt to China, still have remnants of the patriot bill, and stuck in 2 wars we cannot afford. Its not about republican vs democrats. Its about people not doing there job and not heeding the warnings of our founding fathers. As Thomas Jefferson said “He who trades liberty for security deserves neither and will lose both.”
    + 1 million. Nice job twydyn.

    Quote Originally Posted by molon.labe View Post
    you are so high speed.
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  5. #25
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    Re: Debt limit reached? Borrow more!

    Everyone has had some great points, but I think we got a little narrowed viewed on it. The current economic situation was in fact built up far longer then Bush or Obama's terms. This is something that has been building for a long time. Our budget problems have been an issue for decades yet the only reason we even know about this is in fact the economy tanked. I'm going to point to a couple things and then leave it at that, because it is Friday after all.

    1. Entitlement spending and such is a big problem in this country. We do spend a lot of money all sorts of programs. Many of these programs are leftovers that a very small group of citizens even use. Furthermore, these federal programs really shouldn't be run by the federal government. We could get more bang for our buck by "out sourcing" these programs to the states that have citizens who use them. Furthermore, the government shouldn't be spending tax dollars on programs that ultimately alienate citizens for reasons of moral, ethical, or personal preference. Its just a bad practice, and we shouldn't be spending tax dollars where we have no direct control over what is going on with our money. Handing out free cash is never a worthwhile investment.

    2. Our government spends a huge amount of money into two main programs that even the GAO, CBO, and Treasury have not only investigated for fraud but also proven has miss stated total cash assets year after year and continue to operate with no actual accountability over their actions. I am of course talking about the Medicare/Medicad and Social Security programs. Both programs were created at a time as a temporary measure, yet we still live with them YEARS after their lifespan ran out. On the issue of social security especially, most Americans have access to either a 401K through work or their personal banks offer IRA or Roths for their retirements. BUT as Americans we continue to spend way above our means and never plan for the future. My investment planner told me that the average Americans savings is about 5000 dollars. THERE is no way anyone can retire on that. Granted, I like to work so I don't ever plan to fully retire, but for a lot of people they have to retire or are forced out of work.

    We to this day continue to pump money into Social Security on the hope that it will be there, but it is trillions over budget and has been in the red for a better part of 15 years. (Going off memory alone from Government/Business Ethics 240) I believe we dump ANNUALLY 700 Billion into Social Security and another 500 Billion into Medicare/Medicad. Someone can check those figures for me, because I remember writing it down with a mister yuck face next to them in my notes. Why not create a saving plan for Americans that comes out of every paycheck (if they elect to do this) that is set up in American monetary strength and can grow with interest. We can even insure each American's savings plan with the full buying power of the American economy and allow it to grow with our current good standing in the world economy. Just a thought

    3. Everyone is well aware that when you do your income tax annually you are finding out how much you pay is the MINIMUM you owe the Government. You can actually pay more. If people REALLY care about the governments fiscal woes they can pay more on their taxes boobshake . As a society only about a 1/3 of Americans actually pay taxes. The other 2/3s either don't pay or don't state enough on their total incomes to require federal tax payment. (US Treasury Department)

    4. We have a federal government and many state governments that continue to miss spend money at an alarming rate. They also breed redundancy into their agencies and programs, while not improving efficiency. In fact government by its very nature is fiscally irresponsible, because it really doesn't answer to any controlling authority. The only time we can get responsibility is when one party is trying to take over the other for control. Even that doesn't happen much anymore. Obamacare is a great example of inefficiency. It forces many Americans to pay out of their tax dollars to support other for whatever reason who don't have health care. IT doesn't allow freethinking Americans to opt out of paying for others heath needs. That is called fiscal slavery. Everyone hammers on insurance companies, but the reality is that they are businesses. While you are only a policy number to them, you actually represent a cash value and dying customers equals bad business. The government doesn't care if you live or die. You are simply a number to them. Business live and die by how well they treat their customers. Thousands of insurance companies have come and gone, simply because they had bad customer service. Our government isn't going to leave, if they get a bad Google rating. Obamacare represents a monetary pit that burdens every tax payer to deal with, when their is and never will be any accountability in it or money sense. Furthermore, the last time the government required every American (in theory) to contribute to the nation as a whole was the Federal Income Tax. The only way they actually were able to get that going was through an Amendment to the Constitution.

    There are a lot of problems with our fiscal situation. We have been in my opinion miss spending our money on social engineering/welfare programs and not enough on infrastructure and just general income saving. You all can take this post as it is, just my humble opinion.

    "When in doubt, empty the mag"
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  6. #26
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    Re: Debt limit reached? Borrow more!

    Social security is one of the most misunderstood program there is. The government does NOT PAY FOR SOCIAL SECURITY, you and your employer are supposed to pay for 99%. The government is supposed to oversee the funds. Problem is the government has "borrowed" the money to pay for things like Regans star wars program, the current wars etc. and can not pay it back. If they had left it alone to allowed it to correct interest we would not have such a huge problem now. As far as it being an entitlement, of course it is. It belongs to me and the various employers that I have worked for in the past. I think the majority of people have forgot this fact.


  7. #27
    Sharp Shooter Cougsfan34's Avatar
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    Re: Debt limit reached? Borrow more!

    Actually Social Security is a forced contribution program. You and your employer are faced with the paying of it. But you don't pay for the entire thing. In fact it was originally set up to be a 60/40. Employer and Employees pay for 60 percent while the government files in 40 percent. Today, the amount of money you pay into it and what you are theoretically suppose to get when you retire are not equal. The government pays into it far more then you do. Because of that they have gone through and raided it with the idea that since they put the money there, they can take it. As I pointed out, we could spend a lot less on social security and let people plan their own retirement through either a government backed system that is voluntary or through private bank/credit unions. Rather then forcing people to pay into a known corrupt system that is trillions in the red.


    Star Wars? REALLY? Most of that shit didn't even get off the drawing board, and now today we are working towards building the same lame ass bull shit for a missile shield. If you want to point to raiding from the retirement security fund look no further then paying for the bull shit programs enacted by LBJ's Great Society programs....hows that war of poverty working, or maybe our education system. I think we are ranking in the bottom in the western world when it comes to educational standards. If you want to point to government waste, the wars are probably the least of your concerns.

    "When in doubt, empty the mag"
    "Sorry I am late, I had to go by the wax museum and give FDR the finger" -Cotton Hill
    MORE MUNEY FOR TEECHERS!

  8. #28
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    Re: Debt limit reached? Borrow more!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cougsfan34
    .


    Star Wars? REALLY? Most of that shit didn't even get off the drawing board, and now today we are working towards building the same lame ass bull shit for a missile shield. If you want to point to raiding from the retirement security fund look no further then paying for the bull shit programs enacted by LBJ's Great Society programs....hows that war of poverty working, or maybe our education system. I think we are ranking in the bottom in the western world when it comes to educational standards. If you want to point to government waste, the wars are probably the least of your concerns.
    Um, do you understand how expensive that effing drawing board is??

    Leoni Non Sagittis Fide
    ?"Man fears the beast within the wolf, because he does not understand the beast within himself."

  9. #29
    Sniper benja455's Avatar
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    Re: Debt limit reached? Borrow more!

    Quote Originally Posted by stejben
    Quote Originally Posted by Cougsfan34
    .


    Star Wars? REALLY? Most of that shit didn't even get off the drawing board, and now today we are working towards building the same lame ass bull shit for a missile shield. If you want to point to raiding from the retirement security fund look no further then paying for the bull shit programs enacted by LBJ's Great Society programs....hows that war of poverty working, or maybe our education system. I think we are ranking in the bottom in the western world when it comes to educational standards. If you want to point to government waste, the wars are probably the least of your concerns.
    Um, do you understand how expensive that effing drawing board is??
    ks

    + 1

    Quote Originally Posted by molon.labe View Post
    you are so high speed.
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  10. #30
    Sharp Shooter stejben's Avatar
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    Re: Debt limit reached? Borrow more!

    Quote Originally Posted by xman1
    Quote Originally Posted by benja455

    Yep. Here's a quick and easy plan to balance the budget and start paying down the federal debt. End all three wars (Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya), end the Bush tax cuts and start working on creating jobs (which would increase tax revenue on all levels).

    You're welcome.
    Explain to me how Bush managed to run 2 much larger scale wars, and managed to keep his tax cuts, yet only ran $300 to $300 billion deficit yearly?

    Really? Only $300 Billion? Do you understand how long the CEO would be employed if you pulled that shit in a money making business? Jezz, I swear this country needs to be ran like a business, if you lose money you're fired. You can't control your staff, you're fired. Government isn't business though...bs. It's BIG business.

    Leoni Non Sagittis Fide
    ?"Man fears the beast within the wolf, because he does not understand the beast within himself."

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