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Thread: BIRDSHOT for Home Defense?...

  1. #91
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    Re: BIRDSHOT for Home Defense?...

    Quote Originally Posted by zombiegristle
    You'll want to do more than one shot, I like the number three when a larger sampling is impractical. I'd be happy to come along and help out, though I don't have any cash to throw towards the project. I can bring other guns/ammo to compare with, if you like. Shooting stuff is fun.
    I will do more than one shot, but I will be studying the effects shot by shot. I dont want someone to come one here and say... "Well you had to shoot it 3 times, if you were using 00 buck, it would have only taken 1." cause you KNOW that will happen.

    Still coordinating the stuff, but hopefully now that the semester is done I will be able to get this going soon.

  2. #92
    zombiegristle
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    Re: BIRDSHOT for Home Defense?...

    I meant shots into different piggies, assuming you can get more than one. But yeah, sounds like a plan. Let me know if you want any help.

  3. #93
    Sharp Shooter Cougsfan34's Avatar
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    Re: BIRDSHOT for Home Defense?...

    Quote Originally Posted by zombiegristle
    Why don't you just cut to the chase and roll a frag into the living room, take out all intruders at once? It's a proven manstopper, in use by militaries around the world for the last umpteen years!
    Now that is a GREAT Quote!

    - I like buck shot or a slug. Or a combination of both. The only real reason is I am not concerned about hitting my neighbors. My neighbors live a couple hundred yards away. So the idea of pass through isn't a concern and since its just me and the wife, I am not worried about hitting a kid since I have none.

    My dad and my grandpa used buck shot as their home defense load for years. My grandpa did kill an intruder back in 1951 after the shit bag broke in. My grandpa had mentioned that he was using buck shot.

    I guess when it comes to home defense, it really boils down to what works for you. Bird shot may not be all that effective, but if you get the drop on some shit bag in your hallway, at close range that shell will be a man stopper. If you get a
    chance check out this video from Lock and Load with R. Lee Ermey
    http://youtu.be/zpINIV57UdQ
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  4. #94
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    Re: BIRDSHOT for Home Defense?...

    Quote Originally Posted by Steyr Shooter
    Using your same argument you have not posted anything definitive saying that birdshot is NOT effeective. Just a bunch of things showing that 00 buck is, which again, isn't in question.

    I thought I was done with this trainwreck until I saw this gem.

    I did post an unbiased test result, provided link and quote, and you refused to read it and summarily dismissed it.




    As I said earlier, you guys use whatever it is that makes you happy. If you come hunting me make sure its not birdshot, cuz I aint no fuckin bird. ;)

  5. #95
    Sharp Shooter Zwitter's Avatar
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    Re: BIRDSHOT for Home Defense?...

    Quote Originally Posted by zombiegristle
    Quote Originally Posted by Zwitter
    Why aren't the military/police/firearm trainers preaching about how great it is?
    ...
    We didn't field a shotgun with birdshot because it wasn't effective enough to do the job right. So my points in turn prove why it isn't effective in the role of shooting people.
    I can't take people seriously when they use the argument of "it's good enough for the military, good enough for me". It's a copout to save them having to make their own decisions, and I've said so before in other threads. In this particular case, the military doesn't really worry about collateral damage, whereas said collateral is a "make-or-break" in a civilian shooting scenario. Why don't you just cut to the chase and roll a frag into the living room, take out all intruders at once? It's a proven manstopper, in use by militaries around the world for the last umpteen years!

    I do favor buckshot for home defense, and I do not recommend birdshot for anything bigger than a heavily-armed housecat. But your debating skills kinda suck.
    Im not going by "if its good enough for the military is good for me" please don't try and put words in my mouth. I'm just saying that's what the the mil uses, along with federal, state and local police departments, all major firearm training schools and most people who are concerned with HD. Last time I checked frags weren't legal for me to own, good suggestion though.

    @SS If you can't see the logic of no professional forces uses birdshot to shoot people then...prove me wrong with your tests.
    Also is you live in an apt maybe a shotgun isn't the best choice. Maybe beefed up security would be a better investment.

    @ Cougs
    Good video, not at HD ranges. I do like how the birdshot work real well on a bird...

    Quote Originally Posted by CavVet
    Quote Originally Posted by Steyr Shooter
    Using your same argument you have not posted anything definitive saying that birdshot is NOT effeective. Just a bunch of things showing that 00 buck is, which again, isn't in question.
    I thought I was done with this trainwreck until I saw this gem.

    I did post an unbiased test result, provided link and quote, and you refused to read it and summarily dismissed it.

    As I said earlier, you guys use whatever it is that makes you happy. If you come hunting me make sure its not birdshot, cuz I aint no fuckin bird. ;)
    He couldn't find it without a search function remember...
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  6. #96
    zombiegristle
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    Re: BIRDSHOT for Home Defense?...

    Quote Originally Posted by Zwitter
    Last time I checked frags weren't legal for me to own, good suggestion though.
    Actually, you can own one as a registered DD, although I don't know if those are allowed in this particular state. However, I really hope you aren't serious about it being a "good suggestion".

  7. #97
    Sharp Shooter Zwitter's Avatar
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    Re: BIRDSHOT for Home Defense?...

    Quote Originally Posted by zombiegristle
    Quote Originally Posted by Zwitter
    Last time I checked frags weren't legal for me to own, good suggestion though.
    Actually, you can own one as a registered DD, although I don't know if those are allowed in this particular state. However, I really hope you aren't serious about it being a "good suggestion".
    Nah, I was being a smart ass. small holes i can fix, my living room being gone I can not.
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  8. #98
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    Re: BIRDSHOT for Home Defense?...

    Your link to the box o truth showed the penetration of #4 buckshot vs 00 buckshot. There is quite a big difference between #4 buckshot and #4 birdshot. the shot size is about twice the size in the #4 buckshot, so the link you posted did nothing to show that birdshot was ineffective. In addition, those tests were done shooting at walls, and linke I said before, last time I checked, human flesh and drywall were kinda different. The link you posted had NOTHING to do with birdshot, nor its effectiveness on an actual target.

    You keep posting links to buckshot instead of birdshot, which is getting pretty old. The one link showed tests using #6 shot, but in a 3 1/2" shell, so I dont know why they chose a 3 1/2" shell, but it throws the shot size argument completely out the window. You cant compare a 3" shell to a 3 1/2" shell, it throws off the controls.

    The reason we keep going back and forth is because there is not a lot of evidence for the use of birdshot as a home defense round. It just isnt out there. Searching, you will find countless discussions that are identical to this one.

    I put no weight in using the argument that military and LE use it. Like stated previously, a large portion of military uses the 9mm for their pistols, so are you gonna trade in your .45 for a 9mm, (I guess on the .45, figured you were "compensating")

    Go ahead and use your 00 buck, you arent doing any good in this thread because we already KNOW that 00 buck is efffective, and you certainly arent doing any good at proving that #4 BIRDSHOT is ineffective. I dont really know why this is continuing because it seems like we are having two different discussions. You keep trying to show that 00 buckshot is effective, which it is, and you keep arguing that it is effective, which it is, and you keep adding more and more to the discussion about how effective 00 buckshot is, and its a good choice to use 00 buckshot and on and on and on. ok, we get it, buckshot is effective. of course, that is not the discussion we are having here. I have mentioned it at least 5 times now, [offtopic:196xxm8n]The following caps is not yelling, it is caps to be clear on a point[/offtopic:196xxm8n] BUCKSHOT IS EFFECTIVE, BUT BIRDSHOT IS ALSO EFFECTIVE.

    It seems like you are trying to convince me that my argument is that birdshot is better than buckshot, and that is NOT the discussion we are having. We are discussing that birdshot is also effective. I really dont know what you are trying to do with your links and posts and other statemensts.

    Again with the attitude. You know, when someone uses foul language and "smileys" during their argument, it kinda discredits yourself. IMO, foul language just shows that the person using it has such a diminished mental capacity that they cannot come up with a better choice of words in the discussion. I also believe that people that use the smileys to "say" things, either lack the balls necessary to actually say what they are implying, or lack the cognitive ability to actually type out the words.

    Continue with your argument because you are the only one having the argument. Based on what I have seen in your "skills" its not worth it to me to continue to explain to you what we are actually discussing here, which I have gone over several times now. Besides, in a battle of wit, I dont feel comfortable fighting against an unarmed opponent.

    (BTW, this discussion has all been based on a 12 gauge, the site would probably explode if we began discussing the use of a 20ga. as a home defense shotgun.)

  9. #99
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    Re: BIRDSHOT for Home Defense?...



    Im just gonna leave this here.
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  10. #100
    Sharp Shooter Zwitter's Avatar
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    Re: BIRDSHOT for Home Defense?...

    Long post, with some mighty big words. I may not comprehend all that fancy slick talk,but I'll try.

    You are correct I do carry a .45, as my grandpa did in WWII and my uncle did in Vietnam. Both of them carried them after they got out as well. I'd gladly carry a 9mm want to buy me one? I'd really like a Glock 26.

    Birdshot is "effective" to what point? Buckshot would be the control, unless you are testing against other birdshot, which in turn would lead to a skewed test. The point you are trying to make is that birdshot is as/or close to as effective as buckshot, which it won't be. Or it is effective as the both go bang and send pellets downrange, in that case you are correct. I bet you also think racking the slide is gonna scare the guy away.

    If you are going to spend money to be "right" on the internet, you are dumber than I thought.

    regarding my last link, I'd imagine that they where compensating for the lack of power behind a 2 3/4 birdshot shell so they stepped it up, and it still didn't out perform standard buckshot. Did it have nasty results, sure. But it also didn't account for ribs.

    As to you attacking my mental capacity, and my use of foul language. I hope you feel like a big boy and look at the pot calling the kettle black as seen here viewtopic.php?f=51&t=64778&p=355801#p355801
    Quote Originally Posted by Steyr Shooter
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