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Thread: BIRDSHOT for Home Defense?...

  1. #101
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    Re: BIRDSHOT for Home Defense?...

    Quote Originally Posted by Zwitter
    The point you are trying to make is that birdshot is as/or close to as effective as buckshot

    As to you attacking my mental capacity, and my use of foul language. I hope you feel like a big boy and look at the pot calling the kettle black as seen here viewtopic.php?f=51&t=64778&p=355801#p355801
    Quote Originally Posted by Steyr Shooter
    z Sspartan ks
    First, you are wrong about my point. Its not that birdshot is as effective as buckshot, though it certainly may be and I think it likely is, but that birdshot is also effective as a home defense round. It doesnt have to be as effective as buckshot, it just has to be effective at stopping an intruder in a home at a distance of 6-12 feet. Again, you fail to see the concept of discussion.

    Second,you fail to see the difference between having a discussion with someone and giving the old wavefingz
    versus messing around with someone and giving the z Sspartan ks

    I would think that most on here would agree that there is a stark contrast between the two.

    As far as spending money to test this, I dont intend to spend money. You would be surprised at what you can get for free if you ask. I am not doing it to be proven right, I would be doing it as a quest for knowledge. Why spend money on the space program? Why spend money on R&D? That old .45 your grandpa carried was the result of someone putting up their money to test an idea that they thought would work. Have you ever bought a different round for your .45? You didnt know it would work, but you spent money to see if it would, right? The constant drive to learn more and to study more is what actually led to people using 00 buckshot in their shotguns for HD. Look at one of your links, there are dozens of different loads for 00 buck, if one of them works, why try to improve it.

    Its about learning and gaining knowledge and understanding, it has nothing to do with being right, as I said, I wont be interpreting the results, I will just present them. If I were doing it to be proven right, I would want to draw that conclusion for myself. You can keep playing the old butt hurt game, but you havent done anything to make me butt hurt. Once again, we are having an argument that really only you are arguing. IMO, the only thing you have accomplished here is to prove your own ignorance.

  2. #102
    Sharp Shooter Zwitter's Avatar
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    Re: BIRDSHOT for Home Defense?...

    Again you fail to see the point,if birdshot was effective why aren't more people using it in their HD guns besides you.

    Second, you did not specify any smileies as good or bad... is it when I use smileies it makes me "unarmed mentaly" as you would say, but when you use them its quite alright. Sounds very hypocritical of you. Or dare I say ignorant of you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Steyr Shooter
    Again with the attitude. You know, when someone uses foul language and "smileys" during their argument, it kinda discredits yourself. IMO, foul language just shows that the person using it has such a diminished mental capacity that they cannot come up with a better choice of words in the discussion. I also believe that people that use the smileys to "say" things, either lack the balls necessary to actually say what they are implying, or lack the cognitive ability to actually type out the words.
    All I can say is just do you, enjoy your quest for knowledge. Is there an actual timeline for your test? How about two weeks to put up or shut up?

    Here is another story about why birdshot is ineffective. I figured I should post it as you won't read it if I don't.
    Its about a guy with a sawn-off shotgun taking both barrels to the groin while trying to stuff it in his pants. The Femoral artery is only 1in below the skin, cut that and you will bleed out in about 25 seconds. Now if a hit to the groin didn't destroy an major artery only a inch under the skin it is not effective. Also the groin is a specific place on the body, where the Femoral artery runs down on both sides.
    http://www.yakima-herald.com/stories/20 ... o-drive-by

    YAKIMA -- Friends of a 20-year-old man who accidentally shot himself after putting a sawed-off shotgun in his pants initially claimed he was the victim of a drive-by shooting, Yakima police said.
    The man, suffering from massive groin damage, was airlifted to a Seattle hospital where he was reported in satisfactory condition Monday.
    Police found the man in the 700 block of North 24th Avenue about 1:30 a.m. Sunday, but quickly deduced his injuries did not correspond to reports of a drive-by shooting.
    The officers then got a search warrant for a house about a half block away and confirmed their suspicion the shooting was self-inflicted. The man was airlifted to Harborview Medical Center in Seattle.
    Capt. Greg Copeland said both barrels of the shotgun accident-ally discharged when the man for unknown reasons placed the gun, which was loaded with birdshot, in his pants.
    On Monday, police said the shotgun had been illegally sawed off on both ends.
    During the search of the house, officers said they also found a 9 mm Ruger semiautomatic pistol that had been reported stolen in Spokane.
    Copeland said police expect to ask prosecutors for felony weapons charges against the man, who has a lengthy criminal record that includes convictions for assault, theft and drug use.
    It was unclear if the man is an active gang member. According to court records, his involvement in a shooting in 2003 was gang-related.
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  3. #103
    zombiegristle
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    Re: BIRDSHOT for Home Defense?...

    "More people" are using it in their shotguns, from what I've seen. Every time I go into a gunshop I hear people talking about the birdshot they keep in their shotguns for use on bipedal predators. Just because they don't own a big gun company or run a blog doesn't mean they aren't out there. I also knew a guy who loaded his carry revolver with .44 Special snake loads for the first two rounds. He figured they would work like a cheap Glaser at personal defense ranges, and would not be convinced otherwise.

  4. #104
    Sniper massivedesign's Avatar
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    Re: BIRDSHOT for Home Defense?...

    Bridshot may, or may not stop the intruder with that infamous one shot stop, but I'll tell you what.... He will stop after 7 of them gets unloaded in quick succession upon his torso.
    Currently mapping locations of Shooting Areas as well as Gun Stores - Let me know what is missing!

  5. #105
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    Re: BIRDSHOT for Home Defense?...

    Ever been hunting and get hit by "lead rain"? Birdshot is not the best option. However, it is better than not having anything at all. If that is all you were comfortable having your home defense shotgun, then that's better than nothing.

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  6. #106
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    Re: BIRDSHOT for Home Defense?...

    Well bird shot is better for blowing your own balls off.
    z
    If your gonna be dumb ya gotta be tough lmfao.
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  7. #107
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    Re: BIRDSHOT for Home Defense?...

    I've shot a basketball with cheap bird shot years ago went in one side and that's it. Not a test of any sort but it shows the lack of penetration of cheap ass clay loads. I shot that thing across half of Shelton not one round went all the way through turned it into a maraca until I pulled out the ranger magnum 00 and ventilated the hell out of it.
    U.S.A. and the Constitution love it and protect it or GTFO

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  8. #108
    Sharp Shooter Phillburt57's Avatar
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    Re: BIRDSHOT for Home Defense?...

    00 Buck. Thread closed.
    Amateurs discuss caliber, Professionals discuss tactics.

  9. #109
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    Re: BIRDSHOT for Home Defense?...

    Just because a guy get shot NEAR an artery does not mean he will die. There are numerous images of people shooting themselves in the face and head with shotguns and surviving, so it can, and does happen.

    I have a similar link as well, not saying buckshot is ineffective, just showing that regardless of what you load it with, there is a good chance of surviving.

    http://www.nwcn.com/news/124857084.html
    PORTLAND -- Portland police announced late Thursday afternoon that an officer had mistakenly fired lethal shotgun rounds at a suspect instead of the intended, less-lethal beanbag rounds earlier in the day.

    A man was taken to Oregon Health & Sciences University with pellet wounds to the hip. He was expected to survive.

    The shooting was in the 3600 block of Southwest Barbur Boulevard. There was a massive response that included dozens of officers, detectives, lawyers, police union reps, the police chief and even the mayor.

    Dispatchers said the first 9-1-1 call came in around 9:55 a.m. about an intoxicated man harassing children at a summer camp in Lair Hill Park. Other calls said the man had a knife concealed up a sleeve, and that he had left the park.

    Officers encountered a man several blocks away at Naito and Curry and one officer fired what was thought to be beanbag rounds.

    "The Police Bureau began carrying less lethal beanbag shotguns in the mid-1990s," bureau spokesman Lt. Robert King said in a prepared statement. "An incident like this has never occurred prior to today. Training protocols require the officers who are certified in this weapon to visually inspect each round. Lethal rounds are red and blue and less lethal rounds are yellow and clear in color. Officers are required to also do a safety check and load the weapon at the beginning of their shift."

    The shooting drew both Chief Michael Reese and Mayor Sam Adams to the scene, as well as, for the first time, a representative of the city's Independent Police Review Division, part of a revised ordinance on officer-involved shootings.

    "We are just at the beginning stages of this investigation," Chief Michael Reese said in the same prepared statement "Our training protocols are designed to prevent this from happening. I have instructed supervisors to immediately remind every less lethal beanbag shotgun operator to visually inspect each round as they are loaded into the weapon and review less lethal beanbag shotgun training protocols."

    The officer who fired the rounds is a 15-year bureau veteran and was placed on paid administrative leave.

    Police declined further comment but King said more would coming Friday.

    Dan Handelman of activist group Portland Cop Watch called the error "absolutely horrifying." Even though this was the only mistake since 1995, he said it's one time too many. Handelman said police should carry two shotguns with different colors for each purpose.

    Detectives spent all afternoon collecting evidence at the scene and interviewing several witnesses.

    "You know, (it sounded like) bam, bam, bam. It didn't sound like fireworks, thinking back at it," witness Michael Irvine told KGW.

    As you have stated before, LE use buckshot, and this guy was shot in the hip, and if I am not mistaken, that is fairly close to the femoral artery isnt it? Yes, he was further away than point blank range, but you also argue that 00 buck is effective at a greater distance, so this round should have remained effective. Based on the article, and some research to indicate that bean bag rounds are ineffective at distances over 20ft. it can be argued that the officer was at a distance of at most 20ft, from the suspect. Which is not too much further than the standard home defense range of 10-12ft. So what is the discussion and the debate going to be?

    The man shot with birdshot didnt die due to lack of penetration, and the guy shot with buckshot didnt die due to shot placement?
    It couldnt just be their lucky day and both men managed to miss their vital organs and arteries?

    Both the incidents only illustrate 1 point, that shot placement is key.

    So read and enjoy.

  10. #110
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    Re: BIRDSHOT for Home Defense?...

    Quote Originally Posted by Zwitter
    Again you fail to see the point,if birdshot was effective why aren't more people using it in their HD guns besides you.
    Unfortunately, this is irrelevant.
    If a trike is effective at getting people to work, why don't more people ride trikes?
    If a .45 ACP round is an effective round, why don't more police departments issue .45s to their officers?
    If <insert movie here> is such a bad movie, why did so many people go see it?

    Number of people doing something is a piss poor proxy for whether or not that thing is any good.

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