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Thread: BIRDSHOT for Home Defense?...

  1. #51
    Sharp Shooter
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    Re: BIRDSHOT for Home Defense?...

    Quote Originally Posted by Zwitter
    If you actually followed the link and read the shotgun box-o-truth all your questions would be answered. It clearly states it in the article.
    Reading is your friend.


    edited to say, are you an "expert" of any kind? Have YOU shot anyone with bird shot? Are you backing something that you yourself have not tested?
    00 buck has been proven time and time again with military and police forces.

    Pretty much my exact response....

    ;)



    1) His entire website is dedicated to unbiased gun testing. He has done that subject to death.


    2) Let me ask the inverse 10 'question. Would you trust your Wife and kids to birdshot?


    I do not.

  2. #52
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    Re: BIRDSHOT for Home Defense?...

    I found several links on the page, but without a search feature I was unable to find the actual page you posted.

    I WOULD trust my wife and kids to bird shot, again, depending on what you define as bird shot. I say #4 is sufficient.

    None of us are experts, and even if his site has the stuff listed that you mention I still wouldn't consider him an expert.

    This is just gonna go back and forth like the 9 v 45 thing does, with no clear winner.

    I still say, if it's so ineffective, go stand in front of someone shooting birdshot to see how ineffective it is. I have been peppered while duck hunting at 30 yards and the shot still penetrated my clothing far enough to leave a nasty mark.

    DO NOT actually do it, but would you confident that you would be uninjured? I have seen people and tested being shot with non-lethal rounds, and let me tell you, those bean bags and rubber balls hurt. Those have stopped people in their tracks enough to get to safety. If those non-lethal methods will work, I find it hard to believe that #4 bird shot will not. A .22 will stop someone, so will a 9mm, so anything in a 12ga. will be enough to stop an intruder.

    And to reiterate, I am not arguing that birdshot is better, I am simply saying it will be just as effective at neutralizing a threat as 00 buck.

  3. #53
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    Re: BIRDSHOT for Home Defense?...

    Yes, I would trust my wife and kids to birdshot. At least for the first round or two. I am much more worried about buckshot killing one of my kids than the remote possibility that an intruder will laugh off a load of birdshot. But that's the compromise I'm willing to make with my family. Ymmv. And this is also one of the reasons the AR with fragmenting bullets is our first line of defense. Again, you may choose not to compromise in this way. But nobody should kid themselves: A shotgun blast is deadly, with any load, at close range. I don't care if "tests" show birdshot will "only" go through two layers of drywall...
    "Attitude and purpose defeat the average man's concious mind at every turn." -tha dude

  4. #54
    Patrolman Liet-Kynes's Avatar
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    Re: BIRDSHOT for Home Defense?...

    If I'm unsure of whether or not a loved one could possibly be behind the wall that's behind the Bad guy, I'm not pulling the trigger whether it's bird shot or buck shot. So I say use the most effective round to end the threat, and know your target and what it beyond. If you don't know what's beyond then you don't pull the trigger.
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  5. #55
    Sharp Shooter Zwitter's Avatar
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    Re: BIRDSHOT for Home Defense?...

    Quote Originally Posted by Steyr Shooter
    I found several links on the page, but without a search feature I was unable to find the actual page you posted.

    I WOULD trust my wife and kids to bird shot, again, depending on what you define as bird shot. I say #4 is sufficient.

    None of us are experts, and even if his site has the stuff listed that you mention I still wouldn't consider him an expert.

    This is just gonna go back and forth like the 9 v 45 thing does, with no clear winner.

    I still say, if it's so ineffective, go stand in front of someone shooting birdshot to see how ineffective it is. I have been peppered while duck hunting at 30 yards and the shot still penetrated my clothing far enough to leave a nasty mark.

    DO NOT actually do it, but would you confident that you would be uninjured? I have seen people and tested being shot with non-lethal rounds, and let me tell you, those bean bags and rubber balls hurt. Those have stopped people in their tracks enough to get to safety. If those non-lethal methods will work, I find it hard to believe that #4 bird shot will not. A .22 will stop someone, so will a 9mm, so anything in a 12ga. will be enough to stop an intruder.

    And to reiterate, I am not arguing that birdshot is better, I am simply saying it will be just as effective at neutralizing a threat as 00 buck.
    I do like that you totally skirted the question.So let me ask it again plainly.
    Have you done any testing what so ever that birdshot will stop an attacker?
    Have you (styer shooter) shot anyone with birdshot to back up your claims?
    If it so effective, why don't the police and/or military use or even recommend using it? Surely it would be a cheaper way to defend yourself...

    It must be pretty hard not looking for something on his sight, so let me do it for you http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3.htm
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  6. #56
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    Re: BIRDSHOT for Home Defense?...

    Quote Originally Posted by Liet-Kynes
    If I'm unsure of whether or not a loved one could possibly be behind the wall that's behind the Bad guy, I'm not pulling the trigger whether it's bird shot or buck shot. So I say use the most effective round to end the threat, and know your target and what it beyond. If you don't know what's beyond then you don't pull the trigger.
    Easy to say in the cool, safe confines of a thread discussion. The chaos that is a confrontation will have you making decisions that differ from the best laid plans. I hope, and train, to be absolutely sure before I pull the trigger, but I know that things get wild and woolly when sh*t goes down. Sometimes kids don't do what they're supposed to, or run and hide in the darnedest places. I'd rather not ventilate any more walls than I have to.
    "Attitude and purpose defeat the average man's concious mind at every turn." -tha dude

  7. #57
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    Re: BIRDSHOT for Home Defense?...

    I find Steyer GUILTY of being the SGN troll. (No trial needed)


    Admitting and appologizing for being a troll in a thread about said trolling (LOL),



    and then continuing to troll, as made evident here, again.



    Your sentence Steyer?,






    The logout button after clicking the following link and watching teh LoopZ untill the shitty Bloodhound gang sample is embedded in your brain so bad that you sing Boxxys chorus, reminding you that if you dont want to be a troll.... Well... Dont be a troll.




    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cdiz0k0Rudw



    jestera

  8. #58
    Patrolman Liet-Kynes's Avatar
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    Re: BIRDSHOT for Home Defense?...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhino-1
    Easy to say in the cool, safe confines of a thread discussion. The chaos that is a confrontation will have you making decisions that differ from the best laid plans. I hope, and train, to be absolutely sure before I pull the trigger, but I know that things get wild and woolly when sh*t goes down. Sometimes kids don't do what they're supposed to, or run and hide in the darnedest places. I'd rather not ventilate any more walls than I have to.
    If you're at all unsure of whether or not you can keep calm enough to make a clear minded decision on how safe your shot it is, then maybe it would be better for everyone around you if you found another means to defend yourself. That goes for defending yourself inside and outside of your home. Obviously no one knows how cool headed they'll be until they're in the situation, but it sounds like some of you are already planning on failing.
    Julian: You're not prostituting yourself for cheeseburgers again, are ya, Randy?
    Randy: A man's gotta eat, Julian.

  9. #59
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    Re: BIRDSHOT for Home Defense?...

    Box o truth has #4 going through 6 sheets of drywall and 00 buck going through 8. The guy who was shot with # 6 would have been alot worse off if he was shot by # 4 . Im sure a shotgun is good for home defense but all I use them for is clays . If you want a real show stopper buckshot try Ranger magnum 00 buck it makes regular 00 seem like a pussy cat.
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  10. #60
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    Re: BIRDSHOT for Home Defense?...

    Thanks for posting the link.

    He wasn't testing #4 shot, it was #4 buck shot. Also, what was he using as a human analog? Nothing? How could that be? This is the "Box o Truth". The distance was correct, but the methods were not. Last time I checked, human flesh and sheet rock have a different density, that may be something to look into as he is testing.

    I have not shot anyone, but you and I have both likely shot several things in the past. I did state that I would do my own test. Regardless of me not shooting anyone, I have not claimed to be an expert. We all have shot stuff. I have seen #4 shot do a number on many targets, fruit, computers, phone books, no its not a definitive test, but I gained the confidence needed to know that if load it in my shotgun, it will neutralize the threat. Funny, you guys lack that confidence, so you load with 00 buck, go practice.

    Now, since we are pointin out unanswered questions, nobody has answered mine.

    Would you stand 10 feet in front of someone an have them shoot you with #4 shot, and be confident that you would be uninjured? It's so ineffective right?

    I gave my input, not trolling, just giving my input and view on the use of 00 buck vs birdshot. I have never disagreed that 00 buck won't work. It's effective, but #4 is also effective. LE and military use what they use, there is no rhyme or reason. Why do they use the 5.56 when it has been proven ineffective? Just because it's got a military or LE stamp on it doesn't make it better. The military grade buckshot is much less expensive that the commercial stuff available. If its military it should be better, right?

    The point is that none of us are experts and we are just giving our opinions. I prefer not to spend the extra money on buckshot when I am confident that #4 shot will be just as effective. You use buckshot, that's fine. Until I do my own test, I am sticking with birdshot. Unless you have any RELEVANT evidence that has sound methods, I will stick with birdshot. I will try doing my test this week, I'll post the results when I have them.

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