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Thread: How to get more kids to graduate high school? "eliminate math"

  1. #11
    Ranger Wetpaperbag's Avatar
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    Re: How to get more kids to graduate high school? "eliminate math"

    To be honest parents play a huge role as to why kids in America are failing. Too many parents are too busy with their own lives or attached to a computer, or wanting to play the 'friend' role instead of the parent role. These days parents are very quick to blame teachers for the reason their child isn't doing well in school taking away any accountability of the child for not doing their part in class. After all it is the students name on the top of the paper. The child is the one responsible for doing the class work, but when they don't do the work, or don't read the whole set of instructions the teacher gets the blame for not sitting down with the student one-on-one and reading the instructions or providing so many 'hints' that the teacher basically gives the answer. Yes there are teachers who don't do an effective job, however, with larger class sizes and a record number of students with an array of behavioral or developmental disorders in general education classrooms it makes things difficult for teachers to give as much individualized education as parents demand these days. Parents need to remember that if they want their child to succeed at school they hold their child accountable for their work and behavior. Parents need to create a positive attitude toward school, education, and higher learning despite the fact that many teachers might not share the same political or other beliefs. (That is where parenting comes in, hint hint.) This is why many children from forign countries do well in school, the attitude toward education at home is positive and held at high importance. Many forign countries also have longer school days and more days in a school year. The path to better test scores and better results in schools starts at home. Point the blame at the school system or teachers all you want, but too many parents see school as child care and not education.
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  2. #12
    Sharp Shooter Goat Herder's Avatar
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    Re: How to get more kids to graduate high school? "eliminate math"

    I agree wetpaperbag. That's also why Asians Americans over-achieve and are disproportionally enrolled in colleges and universities. Well, I would say Asian from certain countries, generally speaking.

  3. #13
    Patrolman huskylawyer's Avatar
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    Re: How to get more kids to graduate high school? "eliminate math"

    It is an interesting issue for sure. Do employers value people who are book smart, or people who have people skills. I've met plenty of Stanford educated folks who probably scored a perfect score in math on the SAT, but they had no idea how to relate to people and are socially awkward. One of my roommates in law school was from Pakistan and was #1 in our class first year of law school. He was brilliant beyond imagination. But he had ZERO ability to relate to people and was just painful to be around, despite his book smarts. He ended up having a mental breakdown....

    I suck at math (I basically took a "math for dummies" course at U-Dub), my writing skills are average at best, and I am a horrible speller. But I can relate to people, am easy to get along wtih, and I have some street smarts. You can succeed in this country easily without scoring 700 on the math portion of the SAT.
    Last edited by huskylawyer; 08-23-2013 at 12:10 PM.
    Just remember....when seconds count, the police are 15 to 20 minutes away...
    That's why I have a Walther PPS (9MM), FN 5.7, FN SCAR-L 16, Ed Brown Kobra Carry (1911 .45), Ruger GP100 (.38 or .357), Remington 700 (.308), Kel Tec KSG

  4. #14
    Operator hkcavalier's Avatar
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    Re: How to get more kids to graduate high school? "eliminate math"

    Quote Originally Posted by Goat Herder View Post
    I agree wetpaperbag. That's also why Asians Americans over-achieve and are disproportionally enrolled in colleges and universities. Well, I would say Asian from certain countries, generally speaking.
    I dunno. Maybe 1st gen Asian Americans and those on student visas. Sometimes 2nd generation. After that it starts pulling back toward the mean I believe. Anyone have any charts/facts?

    Rote memorization and process is top priority in schools in Japan, Korea, China, Taiwan. So stuff that's highly process oriented like math tends to be their forte. STEM (science, technology, engineering, math) used to be emphasized with both K-12 and college education but that's clearly no longer the case. I think a lot of that died in the 1960s when kids started taking anything and everything at college just for the deferment (while that lasted). But not sure since...I wasn't there.
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  5. #15
    Patrolman huskylawyer's Avatar
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    Re: How to get more kids to graduate high school? "eliminate math"

    Quote Originally Posted by hkcavalier View Post
    I dunno. Maybe 1st gen Asian Americans and those on student visas. Sometimes 2nd generation. After that it starts pulling back toward the mean I believe. Anyone have any charts/facts?

    Rote memorization and process is top priority in schools in Japan, Korea, China, Taiwan. So stuff that's highly process oriented like math tends to be their forte. STEM (science, technology, engineering, math) used to be emphasized with both K-12 and college education but that's clearly no longer the case. I think a lot of that died in the 1960s when kids started taking anything and everything at college just for the deferment (while that lasted). But not sure since...I wasn't there.
    Nearly 40% of all the students at Cal Berkley are of Asian descent.http://opa.berkeley.edu/statistics/enrollmentdata.html Based on that fact alone, I think it is reasonable to draw that conclusion that Asian families in general place a higher importance on education than other races. I suspect you'll find similar stats at most of the top technical universities (e.g., MIT, Stanford).

    As someone who is part Asian (my mom is Korean, Japanese and Hawaiian), I saw it first hand. On my mom's side of the family, you were "expected" to get good grades, and not going to a good school was a stain on the family. That side of the family also stressed personal responsibility and tough love. My mom attended a live-in boarding school from 3rd grade until graduation (Kameheme in Hawaii), and her Asian parents (a fisherman and stay-at-home mom) didn't bat an eye. In most other families, they would freak the fuck out about letting their "little boo boo" attending a boarding school (other than rich east coast prepster WASP families).
    Last edited by huskylawyer; 08-23-2013 at 01:07 PM.
    Just remember....when seconds count, the police are 15 to 20 minutes away...
    That's why I have a Walther PPS (9MM), FN 5.7, FN SCAR-L 16, Ed Brown Kobra Carry (1911 .45), Ruger GP100 (.38 or .357), Remington 700 (.308), Kel Tec KSG

  6. #16
    Operator hkcavalier's Avatar
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    Re: How to get more kids to graduate high school? "eliminate math"

    huskylawyer this cultural emphasis on education has been pretty well researched. Dr. Sowell at Stanford having some great stuff on the subject. Jews, Armenians, Chinese, Japanese being some of the top cultures in education according to what he found. While Scotland, Wales, and Ireland have come a long way, in the 1700s they were the ass end of the educational universe. Guess who settled the antebellum (pre Civil War) South? Scot, Welsh, Irish. This is where the "don't need no book-learnin" stereotype came from.

    Also, how many of those students at Cal are student visa and how many are U.S. citizens / legal aliens? If we open our universities to the rest of the world, of course the cream of the crop will come here and compete with our students.
    Douché: Pronounced "do-shay" and used like "touché", but in reply to something done or said that's utterly douchetastic e.g. "Wow, you went and did a selfie in the spray tan booth. Douché!"

  7. #17
    Sniper GunTrader's Avatar
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    Re: How to get more kids to graduate high school? "eliminate math"

    At Edmonds Community College I'd guess over half the students are Asians on a student visa.
    Hekinan Japan is Edmond's sister city and a shit ton of them get their two year transfer degree at EdCC and transfer to the UW.
    So many they had to build dorms.
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  8. #18
    Patrolman huskylawyer's Avatar
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    Re: How to get more kids to graduate high school? "eliminate math"

    Quote Originally Posted by hkcavalier View Post
    huskylawyer this cultural emphasis on education has been pretty well researched. Dr. Sowell at Stanford having some great stuff on the subject. Jews, Armenians, Chinese, Japanese being some of the top cultures in education according to what he found. While Scotland, Wales, and Ireland have come a long way, in the 1700s they were the ass end of the educational universe. Guess who settled the antebellum (pre Civil War) South? Scot, Welsh, Irish. This is where the "don't need no book-learnin" stereotype came from.

    Also, how many of those students at Cal are student visa and how many are U.S. citizens / legal aliens? If we open our universities to the rest of the world, of course the cream of the crop will come here and compete with our students.
    Good point and I agree completely.

    I'm not sure about the "citizens" versus visa issue, but I believe some of those schools got some bad publicity when they tried to reign in student visas beause they realized it just let in a bunch of Asian students. I know in the California upper education school system (Berkley, UCLA, Stanford, Cal Tech, etc.), there is the "us versus them" mentality going on between Asian and Non-asian students.

    I personally embrace the "asian way" of doing things when it comes to education (that's racist!! sue me). But with that said, I think a healthy does of street smarts goes a loooooong way to becoming a successful person in the U.S. I've met too many braniacs wtih no life skills whatsoever.
    Just remember....when seconds count, the police are 15 to 20 minutes away...
    That's why I have a Walther PPS (9MM), FN 5.7, FN SCAR-L 16, Ed Brown Kobra Carry (1911 .45), Ruger GP100 (.38 or .357), Remington 700 (.308), Kel Tec KSG

  9. #19
    Patrolman huskylawyer's Avatar
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    Re: How to get more kids to graduate high school? "eliminate math"

    And this may come off as being super naive, but I think math course work above fractions should be an elective (i.e., if a future engineer wants to study it, so be it). I hate math, suck at it, and the most complex thing I do with math is convert fractions into percentages lol.
    Just remember....when seconds count, the police are 15 to 20 minutes away...
    That's why I have a Walther PPS (9MM), FN 5.7, FN SCAR-L 16, Ed Brown Kobra Carry (1911 .45), Ruger GP100 (.38 or .357), Remington 700 (.308), Kel Tec KSG

  10. #20
    Operator rayjax82's Avatar
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    Re: How to get more kids to graduate high school? "eliminate math"

    They don't even teach math in trade schools. Trying to teach these kids to calculate true position, or plug in numbers in a speed/feed formula is like pulling teeth.
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