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Thread: Any democrat members here?

  1. #71
    Sniper MorrisWR's Avatar
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    Re: Any democrat members here?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bronco75 View Post
    I am not sure why some of you think Libertarians will save the day?!?!?! Their foreign policy is shit and their immigration policy makes Obama look tough on immigration. If they ever did rise to power...why would you even think it would not be politics as usual? It would....I assure you.

    A Libertarian is the Hipster of politics....but not mentally deficient like Democrats.

    The economy and the war machine makes the world go round. If we are not in the #1 spot in those categories...someone else will be...and that gives them the big stick...and we can't afford to let that happen....and if it does....gay butt sex and killing babies are going to be quite insignificant topics...just as they should be right now in the grand scheme of things.
    I'm sure you know my opinion on all the wars and how they create more Jihadi assholes so it is a never ending drain of resources and manpower. I'd rather we had our #1 military but not be in every corner of the globe. Eventually the money will run out and then we will be royally screwed and will be lucky to have a top 3 military. We can keep plenty of bases to project without fucking around in every shithole of the world. Having an economy based on constant war is a very bad foreign policy as well as a bad economic policy. In my opinion, killing babies will always be one of the top issues. If you can't protect your next generation, and will destroy innocent babies, you are screwed as a culture.

    The #1 problem with our country is not that we don't fight enough overseas, it is that we are being economically and culturally destroyed. We basically have no immigration control now, everyone can just come here and they will not get deported, even criminals. Our monetary system is on thin ice, our jobs are turning into shitty service jobs, and temporary ones at that, and our freedoms are being destroyed. Add to that the push to take our guns and things don't look so rosy, even with our military might. Military doesn't seem to be saving us from our own domestic policies.

    My illustration of GHW Bush's taking away our gun rights in 1989 is an excellent example. At the time the foreign policy was working well, military was handling things great but his creeping tyranny, starting with the banning of imports in semi's, paved the way for what was to come later. Listen to his New World Order speech, I am sure it is still around somewhere. When I watched that back then, I knew bad things would be coming down the road. New World Order my ass, this fucker wanted global control of all systems and to take our rights. Looks like they finally are close to the goal with the IMF, World Bank, UN making global policy, WTO, NAFTA, GAAT, etc. People saw that and he got F'd in 92. People flocked to Perot because, although he looked and sounded odd, what he said sounded a hell of a lot more normal than Poppy. Give me a Constitutional politician over a flaming tyrant any day. Being for the rule of law, following the Constitution and also having a good foreign policy are not always mutually exclusive. Just having a big ass military and fighting all over the globe does not necessarily mean you have a good foreign policy. Strategic use of the military is much more important.

    And...go Broncos!

    Edit: I read LiveFree's statement about how he was screwed by the Republican machine as a delegate and I had eluded to this same thing when my wife and I were picked as delegates. It was because we were Ron Paul delegates, as were a lot of others. They shut us all down by not allowing anyone at the second Caucus to ask any questions, or even to get a list of which delegates were for which candidates. They gave us a slate of delegates the RNC wanted without any candidate preference listed. A lot of people, even the Romney delegates were pissed off. Some even walked out. This isn't how a Republic works and it is just as shitty as the DNC tactics. Saying all that, I still vote mainly Republican because the DNC and their platform is about removing our freedoms. Libertarian party and the others just cannot save us at this point. Perhaps down the road the other parties can have some effect but currently the two behemoths make the rules.

    Last edited by MorrisWR; 11-28-2014 at 06:16 AM.
    "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." - John Adams to Officers of the First Brigade of the Third Division of the Militia of Massachusetts 1798

  2. #72
    Sniper Bronco75's Avatar
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    Re: Any democrat members here?

    I am not saying I 100% agree with the Republican Party. I don't. However, there are some critical issues that I do NOT agree with the Libertarian Party on. Immigration and Foreign Policy.

    Here is the Libertarian link to their Immigration Plan:

    http://www.lp.org/issues/immigration

    I 100% agree that Hispanics should be given a path to citizenship...one that is simplified. However, leaving the border wide open thinking they will quit coming across illegally because the path to citizenship is "easier" is just plain comical...not to mention at some point, some terrorist will slip through that border and strike. An unsecured border needs to be addressed regardless.

    The plan nobody seems to consider would be investing in Mexico and making it a better place to live and they will not want to come here in the mass numbers they do now. Not to mention we could remove a lot of manufacturing and bring it to Mexico and cripple China. Manufacturing will never return to the US in large. The cost of production will create a retail price of products the American consumer will not pay....it's just business 101.

    I know many of you believe the isolationist "stay home" plan is best for our military. I 100% disagree. Our global relationships with out Allies are strategically important to our security. It's the old "Safety comes in numbers" strategy. Sure, we have made some mistakes in the past 20 years. However, the events of 9/11 could not go unanswered. That plan was followed by a preemptive plan to remove any immediate threat to the United States...hence Iraq. It's true...we never put hands on WMD's, however...the amount of these Iraqi produced weapons being found in Syria has to make you think for a second. People seem to think leaving these Islamic radicals alone will result in them calming down. I assure you, this is not the case. They will spread throughout the middle east where they resist the "change" going on there. They have a stick up their ass for America...and they will want to shove a bomb up our ass as often as they possibly can. I would rather fight them over there than over here. They are not just going to go away. The hornet's nest is riled up...it is what it is....we have to deal with it NOW.

    Here is the link to the Libertarian Foreign Policy:

    http://www.lp.org/issues/foreign-policy

    As far as the impact to the national debt....there would be PLENTY of money to fund the military if we get rid of these useless social programs that were created during the great depression and have grown...and grown...and grown. Get rid of this shit...and the pork barrel spending to research the mating habits of hamsters...and we are looking to be in good shape. I 100% agree "printing money" will bury us....and I am not sure we can fully recover from the damage we have already done. A balanced budget is a good start. I am hopeful the GOP can get that done...to prove these past elections were valuable. However, with Mitch and John still at the helm...with Obama's executive order parade...my expectations are low...

    I will continue to vote for the lesser of the TWO evils...as I feel a Libertarian vote at this point is a vote for BLUE. (We need as many RED votes as we can get to fight BLUE) I am a Pro-Choice, Pro Gay Rights Atheist that votes RED....and will continue to do so.

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  3. #73
    Operator rayjax82's Avatar
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    Re: Any democrat members here?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bronco75 View Post
    I am not saying I 100% agree with the Republican Party. I don't. However, there are some critical issues that I do NOT agree with the Libertarian Party on. Immigration and Foreign Policy.

    Here is the Libertarian link to their Immigration Plan:

    http://www.lp.org/issues/immigration

    I 100% agree that Hispanics should be given a path to citizenship...one that is simplified. However, leaving the border wide open thinking they will quit coming across illegally because the path to citizenship is "easier" is just plain comical...not to mention at some point, some terrorist will slip through that border and strike. An unsecured border needs to be addressed regardless.

    The plan nobody seems to consider would be investing in Mexico and making it a better place to live and they will not want to come here in the mass numbers they do now. Not to mention we could remove a lot of manufacturing and bring it to Mexico and cripple China. Manufacturing will never return to the US in large. The cost of production will create a retail price of products the American consumer will not pay....it's just business 101.

    I know many of you believe the isolationist "stay home" plan is best for our military. I 100% disagree. Our global relationships with out Allies are strategically important to our security. It's the old "Safety comes in numbers" strategy. Sure, we have made some mistakes in the past 20 years. However, the events of 9/11 could not go unanswered. That plan was followed by a preemptive plan to remove any immediate threat to the United States...hence Iraq. It's true...we never put hands on WMD's, however...the amount of these Iraqi produced weapons being found in Syria has to make you think for a second. People seem to think leaving these Islamic radicals alone will result in them calming down. I assure you, this is not the case. They will spread throughout the middle east where they resist the "change" going on there. They have a stick up their ass for America...and they will want to shove a bomb up our ass as often as they possibly can. I would rather fight them over there than over here. They are not just going to go away. The hornet's nest is riled up...it is what it is....we have to deal with it NOW.

    Here is the link to the Libertarian Foreign Policy:

    http://www.lp.org/issues/foreign-policy

    As far as the impact to the national debt....there would be PLENTY of money to fund the military if we get rid of these useless social programs that were created during the great depression and have grown...and grown...and grown. Get rid of this shit...and the pork barrel spending to research the mating habits of hamsters...and we are looking to be in good shape. I 100% agree "printing money" will bury us....and I am not sure we can fully recover from the damage we have already done. A balanced budget is a good start. I am hopeful the GOP can get that done...to prove these past elections were valuable. However, with Mitch and John still at the helm...with Obama's executive order parade...my expectations are low...

    I will continue to vote for the lesser of the TWO evils...as I feel a Libertarian vote at this point is a vote for BLUE. (We need as many RED votes as we can get to fight BLUE) I am a Pro-Choice, Pro Gay Rights Atheist that votes RED....and will continue to do so.
    I feel like I already went over why our interventions over there have lead to terrorist attacks over here over the last 60+ years. Its incredibly hard to get people to want to kill themselves without a good reason. There's plenty of literature on this and our own intelligence agency backs my assertion. Our foreign interventions give people reason to want to harm us. WE WERE NOT JUST MINDING OUR OWN BUSINESS AND THEY DECIDED TO ATTACK.

    Unfortunately you seem to keep calling a non-interventionist foreign policy an isolationist foreign policy, at which point I know you're being intellectually dishonest.

    Considering the Iraq and Afghanistan war will cost us between 4-6 trillion dollars including care for injured vets(which they rightfully deserve), what benefit did we gain from pursuing it? We got bin laden, fair enough. But in the process our intervention created that many more people looking to harm us. This gives government carte blanche in murdering the bill of rights.

    Frankly, the minute an arab buys a gun and kills a bunch people in a mall with it I almost guarantee republicans will be first in line to place further restrictions on firearms.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bronco75
    i would eat jizz before you can fuck my wife...i just wont take it from the tap
    Quote Originally Posted by Bronco75
    if Trump wins I will buy all you fuckers a Glock...but not a used SGN one...

  4. #74
    Sniper Bronco75's Avatar
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    Re: Any democrat members here?

    Quote Originally Posted by rayjax82 View Post
    I feel like I already went over why our interventions over there have lead to terrorist attacks over here over the last 60+ years. Its incredibly hard to get people to want to kill themselves without a good reason. There's plenty of literature on this and our own intelligence agency backs my assertion. Our foreign interventions give people reason to want to harm us. WE WERE NOT JUST MINDING OUR OWN BUSINESS AND THEY DECIDED TO ATTACK.

    Unfortunately you seem to keep calling a non-interventionist foreign policy an isolationist foreign policy, at which point I know you're being intellectually dishonest.

    Considering the Iraq and Afghanistan war will cost us between 4-6 trillion dollars including care for injured vets(which they rightfully deserve), what benefit did we gain from pursuing it? We got bin laden, fair enough. But in the process our intervention created that many more people looking to harm us. This gives government carte blanche in murdering the bill of rights.

    Frankly, the minute an arab buys a gun and kills a bunch people in a mall with it I almost guarantee republicans will be first in line to place further restrictions on firearms.
    If that were the case...the GOP would have went after guns when Hasan shooting at Ft. Hood. The "Assault Weapon" situation is much different now than it was 20 years ago. If it was 20 years ago...they would have collectively agreed to ban the AR-15 after Sandy Hook. Additionally the NRA proved to be a powerful lobby...and we need to keep it that way.

    WW2 is a perfect example of isolationism. I am sure you will claim we were not being isolationist and were preparing for war...but in reality we were doing exactly what the Libertarians suggest...building up our military to protect our shores. We put an oil embargo on Japan and it triggered a reaction. Would you suggest we not have done that? Maybe piss off the allies for funneling the Japanese oil so they are left with no choice but to attack us? There is cause and effect in everything. My point is it's better to be the big swinging dick on all fronts. We can't NOT piss SOMEONE off. It is inevitable...someone will not like us for something...be it a relationship with another country or harboring Britney Spears.

    As far as the Middle East goes....our mistake was not fighting a war like a war. War is ruthless and bloody. The rules of engagement handicap our troops in my opinion. However, that is me on the outside looking in...with ZERO combat/military experience. Nation building was the focus over there...rather than the annihilation of the enemy.

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  5. #75
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    Re: Any democrat members here?

    I find myself agreeing with Bronco a lot on politics.

    People naively think we can ignore what happens on the globe. We can't.

    We cannot survive without global trade. Plain and simple. Oil. Materials. Products. We buy and sell to the world. We rely on global markets. We have only 300 Million of the 5 or so Billion people on this world. Think about that. The US has about 5% of the worlds population. Yet we use among the most resources in the world and that means we are MOST susceptible to hiccups in those supply trains. Other nations can go "without" for longer than Americans. Other civilizations don't rely on products and goods as much as Americans and our economy. Without global oil, for instance, our economy would literally shut down.

    Anyway, global shipping lanes and travel and security of economies is important to our survival. Who is going to keep those oil fields secure, who is going to keep those Egyptian shipping lanes open, who is going to fight pirates, who is going to protect airlines from being shot down or hijacked around the globe? You want to be able to travel as an American? We definitely expect freedom of global movement.

    How do you accomplish freedom of movement and security of products, shipping lanes, and from terrorism and such? Intelligence. Footprints. Good relationships with locals. You only do that by being in the region. Helping our allies in Israel, S. America, Iraq, Turkey, Europe, Japan, Australia, etc.

    In order to do this, we need a strong military that wins wars decisively and quickly and defends our allies. We have ruined our reputation by loses or stalemates or ineptitude in Korea, Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan and now with ISIS. Also, with our saber rattling and toothless threats against Syria, Russia, China, N Korea and Iran. We need to get back to the mentality of WWII where we simply unleash the dogs of hell on our enemies. We need to be the ass-kicker on the block, not the indecisive guy on the block who can't seem to figure out how to finish the fight.

    Beating our enemies quickly and decisively is the MOST important issue in our world. Done correctly, that is the best deterrent. Peace through strength. There is no other option. In fact we are suffering from our weakness since at least the Clinton administration. We enjoyed relative peace after decisively winning Iraq 1991, but Clinton was so weak on foreign policy that we got attacked several times and did nothing. And now everyone wants a piece of us.

    Finally, we need to secure the $ gains from victory and go on the offensive. Iraq should repay ALL of the money we spent liberating them, plus favorable oil deals going forward, as a for instance. We should simply annihilate possible upcoming threats around the globe and make them stay in line. If I were in charge, there would be simply 1 negotiation stance with Iran, N Korea, etc. Comply or die. You will NOT pursue nuclear anything. No power and certifiably no weapons. We will bomb you into nothing. We won't put troops on the ground. You'll just see a lot of bright flashes. And then we'll take your oil.

    Yes, we can kill our way out of this. I'm jesting, of course, for simplicity. But we can't NOT - NOT try to kill our way out of this. We keep creating terrorists because we fail to kill them. We just kinda punch them around a little and then go away and let them reform.

    Allies rally round the tough guy who kicks ass. They don't rally around the weak super power who can't win a war against dirt farmers. Examples? We bombed Europe into rubble and nuked Japan twice. Our involvement was a few years. Our allies loved us for it. But a daily slow bleed of Korea, Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan has made us very unpopular. Hit our enemies HARD and FAST and be done with it. Beat them immediately and devastatingly.

    This is an area where all the parties fail, but especially Dems and Libertarians.

    Last edited by leadcounsel; 11-28-2014 at 02:41 PM.
    Never shop at Precise Shooter in Seattle. It's owned by anti-gun, anti-capitalist, pro Hillary voter. I defend the 2A. US Army Combat Veteran and Paratrooper: OIF x4. BSM and MSM recipient. NRA Lifetime. I'm a lawyer, but have not offered you legal advice.

  6. #76
    Operator rayjax82's Avatar
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    Re: Any democrat members here?



    Quote Originally Posted by Bronco75
    i would eat jizz before you can fuck my wife...i just wont take it from the tap
    Quote Originally Posted by Bronco75
    if Trump wins I will buy all you fuckers a Glock...but not a used SGN one...

  7. #77
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    Re: Any democrat members here?

    Being an under employed Okie in a liberal town has been an eye opener. The gov is outta control! They spend money like there is no tomorrow on all the wrong things! I'm for triple the amount of prisons and getting rid of the parole system to pay for it. Win a 20 yr sentence means SERVING 20 yrs, not 7. I never understood the craps because they wanna take care of the world when we've proven we cant even take care of our own. The GOP needs to keep church and state separate tho or we might get stuck with Billary next time around. Cant say I've ever voted for a Crap but I think of myself as an independent.


  8. #78
    Patrolman
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    Re: Any democrat members here?

    remember when liberals/democrats didn't trust the government? Now they worship it. I find it disturbing that they don't mind corruption.


  9. #79
    Sniper jukk0u's Avatar
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    Re: Any democrat members here?

    LC and Bronco: It is very easy (for me) to want to hunker down in Fortress America, but I have to agree that we must engage with our world neighbors in order to not be "outflanked" by the efforts of China in Africa and S. America and by Putin's Russia which seems to be stirring.

    There must be a re-evaluation of HOW we engage. You guys are on to something.


  10. #80
    Operator rayjax82's Avatar
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    Re: Any democrat members here?

    When your only tool is a hammer, everything starts to look like a nail...

    I find it laughable that when one counsels prudence when deciding to engage in military action, one is accused of wanting to be an isolationist. One is accused of not wanting to engage in international trade as if one has to do with the other.

    Its almost as if you're WANT to be laughably obtuse.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bronco75
    i would eat jizz before you can fuck my wife...i just wont take it from the tap
    Quote Originally Posted by Bronco75
    if Trump wins I will buy all you fuckers a Glock...but not a used SGN one...

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